Episode

0:00 The thoughts views and opinions expressed by this podcast as well as its hosts offer entertainment purposes only I Repeat it 0:08 is not serious. It is not real. No 1 is exposing revealing indicting Or telling you 0:16 anything about themselves Also, we do not encourage you to try this at home. We are trained professionals. Do not have your best 0:24 interests at heart or our own. Enjoy the show. Let's go, Tom. Ladies and gentlemen. Yeah. We have 0:32 the specialist of guests here today. Indeed. Somebody that I'm a huge fan 0:40 of. I watch all your content. Messy. Oh, you're messy? I watch every last piece 0:48 of content that you ever put out. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Ladies and gentlemen, podcast extraordinaire, entrepreneur, 0:58 Blue-centric, Blue is in the building. Make some noise. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Blue, I am so honored to have you here. 1:07 Now, they might not seem as excited as me, because they didn't know shit. I just said Blue was coming. They said, who the fuck is Blue? I said, don't worry about it. You said, I 1:15 said the rapper? But what I did tell them was After we did our Meg the stallion 1:23 breakup episode uh-huh I watched the content that you put out which started with hey, 1:32 I wanted to get a good gauge, so I turned on the Joe Button podcast to see what some niggas might say. Always. You shot Mark some 1:40 bill, you said, hey, Mark is bright, but he's still got a dick. He's still a dude. And then you read us for 1:49 absolute filth it was some of the best content I don't shy away from that content I love that stuff especially because I love your stuff and you were making a lot of sense but I 1:57 thought what better way to address this than to Invite blue here so she could read us fulfill herself 1 and 2 so we can 2:05 have the discourse Your voice is too important not to call you out how bad were we 2:14 You could tell it. Yo, and we're being nice to Blue no matter what she says about us. What was the conversation about? Remind us what the conversation was about. 2:22 The conversation was on the scale of Malcolm X's clan. How much did y'all fuck this up? It 2:30 was like the hood was halfway on but not all the way down. And the reason why I mention that is because I always tell men, if you're confused about misogyny, 2:39 change it to race. Because all privilege works the same, right? I agree with that. So if you're talking about misogyny, you're like, is this misogynistic? Pretend a 2:47 white man is saying it to you in Alabama and ask yourself how you would feel and that's how a woman would feel in the moment. Because whoever has the privilege is the white man 2:55 in the room. And privilege is conditional by the way. It's not just a gender-based or a race-based thing. As a black woman who clearly is educated, if I'm in a room 3:04 full of people who are considered hood rats, in that moment I have privilege because my education gives me proximity to whiteness. Okay. So I check myself for privilege all the time, right? And 3:12 I think a lot of black women, and I'm going to say something controversial but brave, I think a lot of black women don't acknowledge when they have privilege, but are quick 3:20 to yell when somebody else has the privilege. And I think a lot of black women don't acknowledge when they have privilege, but are quick to yell when somebody else has the privilege. I think a lot of black men do the same thing when it comes to misogyny. And so if you were in a room of white men and 3:28 they were talking about, let's say, George Floyd or anybody who's ever gotten shot. And before they got to the harm, they blamed the victim 3:37 for not knowing any better. You would immediately have a visceral reaction to that. So when I was watching the episode about Meg, we skipped over any 3:45 harm that might have been done, and it started with her being at fault for not knowing any better and the words that was Megan Clay when they broke up naïve naïve naïve 3:53 and as a woman that was my tea yeah as a woman spending 25 minutes here you talk about how the person who is clearly in pain being naive It felt the way a black 4:01 man would feel listening to a bunch of white men talking about how well he was stupid for being out late at night anyways he should have known better. It felt that same way of pause for 4:09 a second. Can we talk about what she's reacting to? Can we talk about the harm that was caused? And there's a thing about Megan, I'm going to say this. I want to recuse myself for a second. 4:17 I have a lot of friends in the industry a Lot of them know Megan some of them love her some of them love her women I'm talking about talking about women so 4:25 not all women I know love Meg and This was the first time that we were all unified and hurt. We were all, this was the first time that I 4:34 heard all my female friends, even the ones who don't like her personally, say, yo, that was kinda fucked up. And so to watch the men be like, oh, this dumb X, 4:42 Y, and Z, it was hurtful, cause it was like, y'all told her to stop being a hot girl and sit down and find a good nigga and X, Y, and Z, and she did and he 4:50 lied and it's still her fault? Well, we don't know what happened. We just know that she put out something. That was part of our thing. It was like, 4:58 nobody knew There was turmoil in their relationship. Nobody knew anything. She ran and just made a post, which, and weaponized her 5:07 woman fan base, which a lot of people do. Why the word weaponized? Because you made that post knowing what would happen, knowing they would all jump on his 5:15 ass, whether it be true or not. Nobody knows what actually went down. You make a post, it's literally too weaponized because 5:24 the result is everyone now jumps in his mentions, jumps in his comments, condemning him without knowing a thing of what actually happened. I think the assumption 5:32 of weaponizing is a little bit narrow, only because, perfect example, I listen to the show, right? Because I have a lot of guy friends, so I have to. This is where the news 5:40 will be at. And 1 of the things I've heard is, let's say for a second, you only date women who are very slim. I do. He does. Joe told you 5:48 that he found a big pretty bitch who was perfect for you, right? And you were like, no, no, no. He finally wears you down, and you decide to listen to him, 5:56 and the big pretty bitch hurts your heart. Who's the first person you want to come to? The person who convinced you, right? I think what we're missing is, Megan 6:04 lost her mother very early, let me finish, and she listens a little bit too much, I agree she listens too much, to the audience. There's been an ongoing 6:12 conversation between Megan the audience for several years. Even though she doesn't act like it, she heard y'all calling her those names. She heard y'all telling her to sit 6:20 down. She heard y'all talking about her wet ass pussy, right? I... Us. Men in general. Everybody in general. It was her song though. Yes, no, no, 6:29 but I'm talking about in the disparaging way, like you're doing too much. We don't wanna listen to it. You're a whore, hard art, right? No, you guys didn't say it. But the 6:37 social zeitgeist said it. We're talking about the social zeitgeist. You live and die by the sword. I agree that she's too connected to the internet, but I also believe She's 6:45 been having an ongoing conversation with the internet since day 1. And it is actually completely aligned with her personality that she would come to them 6:53 when she's heartbroken. Do I agree with her doing it? No. But I don't think it's weaponizing. I think it's immaturity. So you cannot... I think she's immature, but I don't think she's weaponizing. She's 7:01 been having an ongoing conversation. This is not just a one-off. It's not a one-off. She's been talking to us in a way that is too much for a long time. So it's not a weapon, it's just a continuation of a pattern. 7:10 Does that make sense? Makes sense, I agree. You'll acknowledge her understanding and also mastery of the internet 7:18 over the last 7, 8 years. I wouldn't say mastery. She has an affinity for it and a real attachment to it. She's a 7:26 slave to it. So you know that when you do these things, what your fan base is gonna do to this man. You can't say you acknowledge all of these things and you don't acknowledge this piece of 7:34 it. It's like Joe Button is a fuckin', a social media aficionado. So Joe knows that when he immediately starts to engage 7:43 me about some dumb ass oxtails, to go to tell- Oxtail. Oxtail. Look at that. Oxtail. You can't do that when he's sitting next to you. So we know 7:51 to- Honest. He knows already to go tell Erickson, yo, clip this up because I know what it's gonna do. The same way that Meg knows that when she says these 7:59 things about this man, what her fan base is gonna do, and what other women are gonna do. You can't have the knowledge of 1, but not have the knowledge of the other. Some 8:07 of the other. Have you ever heard of crime of passion? Yeah. So I think there's social media crimes of passion that happen every day, where you do something and post it and you regret it afterwards. I think 8:15 she knew after the fact, I think in the moment she was like... I don't think she regretted it. I think she regretted it. I agree with you. I agree with you. I think she was lashing out. I don't think, I think we're giving her too much credit about the intent. 8:24 I think she might have liked it afterwards, but I think in the moment she was mad. I believe that. And in being mad though. But in being mad, you know what your fan base is going to do. We can't 8:32 have accountability on 1 hand and not have accountability on the other. I'm agreeing with your point. I'm also saying that to Aysa's point, she definitely weaponized her fan 8:40 base against this man. Do you think accountability has to be punitive? I think it depends on the intent. Here's the thing, because 8:48 to Axel's point, we can't speak on the intent. Here's Magda Stallion in my belief, and mind you, I'm very close friends with Naka who did her documentary. Me and Naka had dinner last 8:56 week. I didn't tell her I was coming, Naka, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm in the lion's den. It's all right. No, and you're not. You're not, though. You're really not. 9:04 Don't do that to us. We sitting off camera laughing, joking. Now wait, now, how she described us, which is she's the greatest. She said, it's a room 9:12 full of misogynistic men that don't know that they're misogynistic. They think they're high value men. They're mid-tier niggas. But 9:22 they believe themselves to be other things. You know what it is to me? That's what you said about it? No, I didn't. I did not say that. His encapsulation- Don't listen to Joe. 9:30 What did he say? What did he say? What did he say? What did he say? What did he say? What did he say? What I said is there are blind spots that 9:39 people don't always point out, and that as great as you are, Marc, you still have a dick, so you still have a blind spot, because you're a man, right? In the same way that as a black woman, when I call my male friends to check me 9:47 is because I know as educated as I am, as brilliant as I am, I'm still a black woman. I need somebody across the room to tell me. So because you're a man, you're always gonna 9:55 have a blind spot about misogyny because you have a penis. Because I'm a woman, I'm gonna always have a little bit of that feminine thing that is like, oh, let me ask 1 of my brothers to check me. Everybody has 10:03 it, nobody's exempt. What I'm saying about Megan is, I think she is immature. I think weaponized in this ecosystem 10:12 that we're in with Trump and everything that's happening, I think the weight of that word is slightly too heavy for what's happening. I think being immature and irresponsible makes more sense than weaponized. But at 10:20 what point, this ain't the first, like you said, ongoing conversation, this ain't the first time she's went to the black screen, writing on the black screen, and 10:29 after a while you know what's going to happen. She's not oblivious to... It's not her, it's everybody of her age who's in social media. But I'm speaking to her. We're talking about... There's 10:37 no way she typed that up without knowing immediately what would happen next. It's not true. I'm not rolling with that. It's not true. That is true. I 10:46 don't think so. I think there's a world where it goes back to the statement of passion of crime. Sometimes you just go get so caught up in your emotion 10:54 and your feelings and you lash out and you do things that maybe you shouldn't have done in the moment. So I 11:02 could understand that aspect and then you get the reaction after and it's like, cool, I've already went there. There's also people who will repeatedly do that 11:10 and we have to still have to go through the motions of what happens after that, which speaks to the maturity aspect of it. But it still doesn't mean she's still a human. Yeah, 11:18 but where we are, right? Because I don't negate what either y'all are saying. But where we are is step 1 in what do 11:27 people believe about Megan. Do we believe what Blue was saying? She was immature in a place. She did something. Or do you believe 11:35 that she's calculated? Right? Because I think a lot of this just boils down to what we believe and what we don't believe about. Who do we? The 11:43 people, the people. Not us, the people. Okay, so like she said something, and it's only funny because I just went to the wedding, right? 11:51 And a wedding bridal party of nothing but black women, a couple of them know Megan. And they know that we've spoken about 12:00 her up here. And their reaction to me, and I swear to you all my life I did not know that this would happen but they look at us like we ain't shit because how we 12:08 handled another black woman understand a lot of people yeah but yeah for us when we say the we we think that we're representing like the 12:16 majority of people who are looking at this from a certain level, and a lot of black women don't see the shit that we see. A lot of them see a whole other side of this, and 12:24 it feels like, especially when you're in a room full of men, black men at that, no one's really representing the sensitivity of a black woman and what they're going through in the moment and being 12:32 able to just be a human while also being a celebrity. We don't do that often. I tried to say a lot in that episode that Meg 12:41 has lost everyone. She's by herself. We gotta have some type of grace for the learning in real time and her going 12:49 through shit. Like I tried to say it. Yeah, you tried. But you start, the thing is that first taste was so pungent. It was hard to get that. It'd be like somebody 12:57 give you a funky piece of meat and then try to give you strawberry shortcake afterwards. You can still taste the funky piece of me at the back. And here's the thing that I'm going to say this, I am pansexual, which 13:05 means when it comes to gender wars, I'm kind of in the middle. I think everybody sucks. I've dated men and women, you all suck. Right? And so I tell my straight friends all 13:13 the time, if you date women, a lot of the things these men say, you would actually agree with them, just because I know how frustrating it is to date women. I'm not being misogynistic. It's just somebody 13:21 who's experiencing it on both ends, right? If we were to see, back to race, a black man fumble, and he was being held accountable, and 13:29 then it got racist, Even if he was wrong as fuck, the racism part would hurt us, right? Meg was wrong. It's okay to hold her accountable. 13:38 It's the misogyny that hurt us. It's not the holding accountable, it's when it got misogynistic. When you're showing a meme of her bent over with the train being run 13:46 on her, with Clay in the back holding flowers, even though he cheated, allegedly, that is no longer critique or accountability. That is misogyny. 13:54 I think we all agree with that. So the pain point wasn't the accountability or the debate. It was If a white person says Tyrone fucked up, Tyrone 14:02 probably fucked up. But if he gets racist, I don't give a fuck what Tyrone did, not too fucking much. I think what women are experiencing is the not too fucking much and the misogyny end because you guys have 14:11 nuance. A lot of your listeners don't. I actually dated a guy who, his sex was amazing. Shout out to him. Shout 14:19 out. Still got you pulling it. Look at you, fuck, so right. Still got you taking a part. I glitched, I glitched, I glitched. He put me through the mattress. I passed out with my head pressed against 14:27 the head boy I didn't know where I was hello the only reason we're not dating is he listens to the pod, I love him, and he's a Tory Lanez apologist 14:35 who leans towards misogyny. And he uses you guys as an excuse to move like that. And I said, I don't even think Joe and them agree with you, now 14:43 I gotta find a new eater, right? Like I think there is. Oh shit. You'll fire the fire eater over that? 14:52 It's all your fault. Oh, you got too much of a backbone. Word. I'm being so serious. I've been affected by y'all. I swear to you this is scary because a lot 15:00 of the conversation being had was people feeling like some of the things that were representing that side of the Manosphere was coming from and represented 15:08 from us. And we didn't. Like, sadly, and I know, like I had to point out things like, no, this was said, and it's like, no, nigga, yeah, I also said this, and also people feel motivated 15:17 to now get behind that because it feels like they have a, it feels like it's a confirmation from men that they respect. I invited Blue here for this to be a teachable 15:25 moment, if not for us, then for me certainly, because I think she's brilliant, And some of the shit she was saying, it was hitting the corner. 15:33 I was like, well, I maybe need this explained to me differently. So my question to you is, how does a black man hold a 15:41 black woman accountable without coming off misogynistic, right? Well, I have an answer. I guess that's my question. You cannot, not publicly. 15:49 If y'all really want to have this conversation, I'm over here about to blow a top. I'll tell you, there's an answer. Well, let her answer and then I'll let you hear from you. So here's the thing, right? I 15:57 teach emotional intelligence, and emotional intelligence is gender neutral. So a lot of the things you guys grapple with when it comes to gender with women, black women 16:05 grapple with when it comes to trans women. I've said this before on the record, black women are some of the most transphobic people I've ever had to work with. And your take on it, you smoked your take on the 16:13 Iraqi. I love black women, And I also can call us out, right? Because black women have been told we're at the bottom of the food chain, when we meet trans girls, we're like, what do you mean there's a trap door 16:21 underneath us? We're not used to having a privilege against anybody. So all the stuff that we ask of other people, we don't know how to give back a lot of times when it comes to trans girls. 16:30 And so what I always say is, again, whoever has the privilege has to do more listening than talking and cannot center themselves. When I talk 16:38 about men, because I have so many men who come to me and trust me, my friend, Carlos, shout out to him, he works in the industry, very brawling, very built, 16:46 he looks like the rock, he was a stunt double for the rock. So you can imagine what he looks like, right? For my birthday, he wrote me a letter, he said, "'Blue, thank you for always having men's back "'and 16:54 holding us accountable in a way that feels safe.'" Because of that, when you see a plus-sized black woman who's racially non-ambiguous, you're gonna expect me to be a ball buster. You're gonna expect me to be a ball buster. You're gonna 17:02 expect me to be like niggas ain't shit but hoes and tricks. I was a little girl who'd be like why we call making fun of the broke niggas in all the rap songs? They got feelings too, so I'm not that girl. What do 17:10 I do when I'm talking about men? I always pause when the women get too angry and misandrist because women can be a little nasty because of hurt. I say, hey guys, 17:19 make sure that you recognize that there are men in your life that you love. If you couldn't say it about your father or your brother, don't say it about this nigga just because he's a man. Say it because you don't like him. 17:27 So the answer to Isha's question is, attack people. Sorry, don't attack people, attack the systems. Attack misogyny, not men. Attack racism, 17:35 not white people. And also recognize, if you have a privilege, don't make false equivalencies, because you guys make a lot of false equivalencies. If a nigga can't do this, but women can do this. Women don't 17:43 have that privilege that you have. If you acknowledge the privilege first, you won't make those false equivalencies. Ish? She 17:51 said a lot. I did. I think number 1, honesty is at the forefront of this conversation, right? And so I think- What's the intention of 18:00 the honesty? We have to be honest. No, what's the intention of being honest? Are you weaponizing it as like a sword or a wedge? No, I'm saying that truth is 18:08 absolute in my opinion. So I think that, so I'll take it off of this particular thing so I could try and get some understanding. I think that in today's 18:17 society, and this is where the weaponization comes from, if somebody critiques a Jewish person, the Jewish person could be dead wrong. 18:25 The immediate sentiment is going to be, you're anti-Semitic, because I don't want to take accountability. If somebody critiques 18:34 a homosexual person, the homosexual person could be dead wrong. They're immediately gonna say, oh, you're homophobic. Today's 18:42 society, if a white person checks a black person, a black person is in the dead wrong. We're immediately going to call them a racist because we don't 18:50 want to look in the mirror and say, hey, maybe that person has a point and I was out of character or out of bounds in this. The easy thing to do 18:58 is to say, yo, you're doing these things to me. I think that speaks to tone and how you address it. I think sometimes when you do address people a certain 19:06 way and it has a certain level of intensity or anger behind it, it can feel like an attack, like. Yo, if I call you up. It speaks to whether I want to hear that message or not. Exactly. 19:15 That's really what it speaks to. So for you, because you are a black woman, now you talking to another black 19:23 woman, they can't use all of the buzzwords to dismiss your message. That's 19:31 not true, because they can call her a pandera, they can call her a big finger. They can do a bunch of other, they can use a bunch of other shit. Listen to this. I heard what you said. Back to what I 19:39 was saying, right? Kevin Samuels was saying a bunch of shit, right? And people had a feeling about Kevin Samuels. Any other person 19:47 that's big in the space, immediately we're gonna attack their deficiencies so that we don't have to hear the overall message. So 19:55 when Kevin Sanders was saying shit, it was, yo, that nigga's gay. Yo, that nigga ain't got no marriage. He had 2 failed marriages. Who the fuck is he to be saying 20:03 these things? And then I said this to Sarah. Sarah and Kendra started kind of echoing a lot of Kevin's messages. 20:12 And now Kendra, I've heard her say, yo, you black women, she said this, this is not me, are some of the meanest motherfuckers on the internet 20:20 and y'all want people to handle y'all with kid gloves and y'all don't. So I think to Ice's point, it depends on if you're ready to receive that message, 20:29 if you're going to look at it with misogynistic brain or racist brain. I'm never going to receive a message that way. First off, let's address, I 20:37 said approach. Kevin Samuels approach to some of this messaging was... Let me finish what I'm saying. You mentioned Kevin Samuels. 20:45 It's leading back to my point of sometimes people don't want to hear a message period when it's being addressed to them in a very disgusting and negative way. That was his approach 20:53 for media stanch or for whatever popularity or to get the clip. I don't want to hear that message. Now if Blue comes here And she's being very, 21:01 she's echoing sentiments that other women have said, but I've been more receptive to it because of her approach. The dialogue she's using with us, the certain words. 21:09 That matters. And to Imani's point, and this is part that you're missing even in your point, because I was actively listening. I wasn't listening to her, but I was actually listening to learn. A lot of people don't know how to do that. 21:18 I think the issue is not what's being said, it's what's not being said. The reason why Imani can receive my message is because I acknowledge 21:26 hypocrisy, privilege, systems of oppression first, Then I made my point. The absence of that is why both Kendra and Kevin have 21:35 failed. If you are a man who says, hey sis, I recognize that, I got some privilege as a man, and there are certain things that you go through that I'm never 21:43 gonna understand. And as your brother, I'm noting this in you, the minute you do that you can literally see her shoulders relax. Because you first acknowledge the privilege, 21:52 you did not center yourself in her shit, then you gave the message. What people are doing is they're rushing right through. It's like no KY jelly, just straight on Soft 22:00 peen, right? Nobody likes that. You need to do some foreplay. The foreplay is the acknowledgement. A lot of men fail because they don't 22:08 acknowledge. Your example is sick. My shoulders just went back up. I'm sorry, I'm just going to get my ass again because y'all ruined this for me. But you know, like, it's 1 22:17 of those things that if a man simply acknowledges his privilege first and centers the woman first, suddenly she can listen to a lot of stuff. Same thing with men. When 22:25 I talk to men who are defensive, the first thing I do is I acknowledge I'm a woman and I have no idea what it's like to be a man. And I'm feeling 22:33 really emotional right now, so if I say something that's a little bit disrespectful, I'm giving you permission to check me and fix my tongue. Now nigga, let me talk about how you got me fucked up. 22:41 You see how the beginning, the foreplay, a lot of men think that they can't get there because they skipped the foreplay and go straight to the message. You have to, if you have any privilege, 22:49 always acknowledge it first or nobody wants to listen to you. If a white man came in here right now and said, all you niggas are lazy, and he had a bunch of tips about how 22:58 you could do better work, you'd be like, excuse me, brother, Our lives were not built the same way as you. How dare you come at us? But if he comes and he says, hey, I know there's systemic oppression. I know y'all are dealing with stuff that 23:06 I haven't dealt with. I might have some stuff that can help you. He's acknowledged, privileged, and centered you. Suddenly, the same thing makes sense now. Men are missing the first 23:14 piece. Work on the foreplay-ish. Are you glitching? Nah, I don't wanna. 23:22 You don't think there's conversational foreplay that should take place? There is conversational foreplay. And the thing is the truth by itself is neutral. Anything about the 23:30 truth? Are you a conversational eater? Yeah, 1000 percent. Yes, 1000 percent. And again, the analogy that you get, and I don't want 23:38 to come off as argumentative, because it is. No, we don't. You came here. I invited her. This is healthy. This is healthy. This is healthy. This is healthy. The analogy that she, I mean, the 23:46 hypothetical she gave was the white man comes in here and says, all you niggas are lazy. So he's gonna lose the room at that point. He did not give the foreplay to come 23:54 back and say all you niggas are lazy. She changed his entire message. He never said, he said, yo, this is systemic oppression and your condition is based 24:03 on things that were set forth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He never comes back to lazy. Because when he comes back to the lazy comment, he's gonna lose everybody in here 24:11 again. I disagree, because I'm on camera saying some hella provocative shit. I'm talking about the example you just gave. But in the example, he actually could leave it back in, right? In the example, 24:19 at some point, he actually could. I've done this before, where there is something really nasty, an inconvenient truth that nobody wants to say. And back when I used 24:27 to work with Jason Lee, child, he would always shove me like, you would talk to them, right? Our friend Jason. You know what, you're hilarious. You know, you didn't know. We're so fucking close. Did you just do 24:35 that? Hey, Jason. What I would do is I would go in the room, do all that stuff, halfway through, they're eating it up so much, I could slip in you niggas as 24:43 ladies, you're like, you're right, you're right, we was fucking up, We came 30 minutes late. I've been able to get that off in ways. You'd be surprised. And I will say this. She's a white man. Can you simply acknowledge 24:53 that even Kendra, and she's not a good example because, can I be honest, you could be a woman and still be misogynistic? Thousand percent. Internalized misogyny. So we calling out Kevin Tamers and the woman 25:01 means nothing to me. They could both be harbingers of chaos when it comes to misogyny. In fact, some of the biggest misogynists, and we know some in common, some of the biggest misogynists 25:09 that I know have vulvas, yes? And so to me, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know. You mean a woman doesn't mean that you're not 25:17 a misogynist. You might be the house slave who was working with Massa. For me it is... You know what's coming. 25:25 You know. I can go wherever y'all need to go, right? I got my wheels on. Now we good. What I'm going to say is, if I'm not safe, and I asked this question about intention, and we 25:33 kinda skated over it, I'm gonna go back to it, intention, you cannot skip over it. That is the foreplay, right? If your intention is to weaponize the truth, I don't care even if you're 100% 25:42 accurate, I don't wanna fuckin' hear it. It is fruit from the poison tree. If your intention is to build a bridge, now you can tell me some really gully shit that I might not have listened otherwise, and I'm 25:50 open to it. So your intention always matters. Are you saying this to sun me or to help me? And some of you niggas say things to sun people, but because you're 25:58 factually accurate, you feign confusion when people are upset. Your intention worked. You said it to hurt me and it worked. That's where I thought 26:06 the irony was in your piece that I watched, right? Oh, I love irony. Because throughout the piece, as 26:15 you were on this rant about misogyny and niggas, you did keep making it a point to say, yo, anything, 26:23 any hard truth that I have to say about the men, I'm saying it out of love. I'm saying it because I love you and because we need the community 26:31 and we need to be able to work together. Like you did keep making that point. So as I was watching the piece, I was like, well, it's interesting to me that she gets to say 26:40 that while delivering hard truths to men. But when men are attempting to deliver hard truths to women, it's painted 26:48 a different way. Because let me tell you something, right? Like in our Meg piece, and granted I may feel how I feel about 26:57 her, but that episode specifically I made sure to speak to her or about her like I would speak to my good homegirl 27:05 who was calling asking for advice about a man and I got a bunch of them hey don't ask me if you don't really want it no I really want it okay well I'm gonna give 27:13 you the nigga view of what I see and it ain't, it's gonna sit down. It's blunt. It ain't gonna go down. It's gonna hurt. 27:21 Yeah. And you may not believe some of this shit, but I'm gonna tell you, why wasn't it looked at like men trying to give Meg some 27:30 shit about men? Because The messenger matters more than the message. You can't give the right message to Meg, no matter 27:38 what. We can't, collectively. That's really what that is. But I'm asking Blue, because I do want to hear from Blue. But... 27:47 I'll answer that. Here's the thing. We really downplay how important the first touch is had we 27:55 started with that and then did the naive conversation later it actually I would have stuck around and been more open, right? The minute you get somebody 28:03 defensive and they don't feel safe, the conversation is over. And so anybody, man or woman, if you start off in a way that's inflammatory, I don't want to 28:11 hear shit else you have to say at that point because I see you as an adversary, not as an ally. You have to always establish ally-ship first. It doesn't 28:20 matter if it's in the second hour or 30 minutes in, it has to be immediate. Because people, it's a trauma response. If I walk in and you're talking shit about me, I'm immediately shutting 28:28 off and calling my Uber. The way you start is 100% of it. The thing about the Joe Budden podcast that I love and sometimes loathe is You guys always 28:36 eventually get there and I'm always so proud of you and a lot of the people who are like why you going here? I was like y'all don't understand These niggas are smarter than you think if you get past it all the time 28:44 if you get past the influx When Mark was on the show my fellow academics cuz you know I used to work at the grill for 10 years, shout out to Byron Allen and them. They were like, Blue, talk some 28:52 sense into Mark and hit him up and I was like, no, you don't understand. Ish and I, Parks and, Joe is actually closer to Mark than y'all think, right? But you do the 29:00 inflammatory stuff first and people shut off. The first impression, particularly with marginalized people, matters. If you care about my safety first, 29:09 then tell me the ugly, I will sit with you longer. And it's the only critique I have of this show is the start has to be safe before we get to 29:17 the froggy shit. Okay, I get where some of my confusion comes in. As a podcaster, I start with a bang. It's the opposite, yeah. 29:25 Yeah, and that's why it's impossible to feel safe. I start with a bang and slow walk the door to where blue is taken. I never do the inverse of that. All that gets missed once you start 29:33 that way. But I have a trick though for you. But there's 2 things with that. 1 is just the nature of podcasting, which is you gotta be provocative. And 2, also where 29:41 the audience is. Because I think if you're doing this audience on Native land, you start elsewhere. And then you might bring them into, yeah, but Meg needed 29:49 that, that, that. But here, because where the audience is, you have to kind of slow walk them too. And I think, like when you're in a barbershop, I think I know what 29:57 my experiences are like. I can imagine. So if I'm in a barbershop, I can't start with, all right, y'all, this is homophobic. All right, y'all, this is misogynistic. Because 30:06 in the same way you can lose the audience on this end, you can also lose the audience on the other end. So sometimes you do have to start where people are and then walk them to this other place. Do you believe in teasers? 30:14 Because what I've learned to do from podcasting is I will say 1 sentence of the inflammatory shit, like yo, I think she's on some bullshit, but let's be fair at first. 30:22 I will literally say I'm about to get where y'all already at, but I need to make sure that we do our housekeeping first. And people stick around for that. And mind 30:30 you, I do 5, 6 hour lives. Y'all think 3, 4 hours? I'll be on there for 5 hours and 46 minutes and pay my mortgage with 1 podcast. And people will 30:38 be like, I have- 5 plus, hold on, hold on. That's why she got that bad. She talking heavy. She talking heavy up here. Watch y'all fucking mouths when it come to bed. Fuck y'all 30:46 talking about, oh, okay. Really? You're my heart man. No, YouTube is, I'm going to Google next month because YouTube said, blue, how is it that you only have 45, 30:55 000 followers and you make as much as people who have 2000000 followers? It's because they sit with me longer. The engagement time. So I'm not talking about the 31:03 quick fix, I'm talking about longevity. If I say, yo, I think Meg was on some bullshit, and I got some problematic to say, probably around the 31:11 40 minute mark, but beforehand we got to do the housekeeping to make sure our hands are clean. You're going to sit for that. You're going to sit for that, right? I do. Your fans. That's 31:19 my only pushback though. Your fans. Your fans will. But here's the thing though, there's a training that happens. The first time a fat nigga has to eat a salad, he's gonna be mad. But eventually, 31:27 you have to teach him how to like a salad, right? You guys are at the point now where you are taste makers. I'm here because you guys are taste makers. You are the 31:35 biggest podcast of people with penises. And I happen to date that demographic. I think we should make sure it's true, though. So I have a vested interest in that. And also, 31:44 too, a lot of women listen to you because they don't want to admit it but they want to see what they're getting wrong because whether you guys want to say it or not you're the kind of men that women are looking 31:52 for you all represent a different archetype and this is not me glazing you because I don't say shit I'm autistic oh now we believe you girl I cannot say shit I do not mean right you all represent 32:00 a kind of man that women are looking for, right? Like perfect example, you being such a good father, and I don't want to get emotional, but as a black girl who did not 32:08 have a good father, I get very, okay, I'm not gonna cry, it's the ticket. If we cry, we crying, I'm a cryer. If you cry, I'll cry and I'll get the napkins. I know, I got too much Virgo in 32:16 my trinitis to be just crying on the couch. Okay, no, like, when you hear about what a good father you are, it humanizes you, right? And 32:24 I think it's a disservice that a lot of people can't get there. Even Ish, when we talk about how arch, and even, this is crazy. No, because you know what? Ish gets the 32:32 most beef because him and Joe are like the, you know, the 2 adversaries that help. A lot of times what Ish is saying is he wants so bad 32:40 for people to advance, he's trying to drag the carcass of excuses across the finish line, right? I understand the inertia that he drags us with. I get his 32:48 frustration and the irony is, it's the same frustration I have a black man. So many black men, because I used to be a fixer for the government, no, no, let me make sure I don't take too much. It is. 32:57 Olivia Nope is what they used to call me. I used to be a fixer working in politics, and 1 of the things that I learned that broke my heart, 33:05 which is why I'm so passionate, is that the GOP considers black men the weakest link. They think that you are so disenfranchised, you are the easiest to 33:14 woo away from the community. And so everything they do is to woo you because they see you as the bottom bitch. That shit hurt my heart so bad. 33:23 See what you think it is? No, I don't want to. I'ma be a bitch ass nigga this episode because it sounds good coming from you. And I 33:31 want you to hear me, right? When we say that, we get shut down. When we say, yo dog, they are targeting us, 33:40 and again, I don't wanna make this a woman man thing, black women have sat up on these couches and said, y'all are fucking wrong. Do you know 33:48 why? Some of the things, you're about to make, no, I don't know why, but the why don't matter when the facts and the truth are the truth. When we say you 33:56 know why, we're making excuses and justification for the fact that the same way you just said, yo, y'all are saying this, but 34:04 you know why? They're not receptive. So why is it about the GOP, not the women though? No, I know. And the, no, yeah, that's what I'm saying. So we're the same age. 34:12 No, no, that's what I'm saying. But if we, when we say, yo dog, they don't fear y'all like they fear us. Motherfuckers like, are you stupid? Yes they fucking 34:21 do. They care about AAAAA, and it's like, yo dog, all right, cool. You gotta shut up because if you continue to keep talking, guess what you're gonna get labeled as? You're gonna get 34:29 labeled the misogynistic nigga. When you sit up here and sometimes say factual, truthful shit, the margin, and this is where you are hitting 34:37 a home run, the marginalized group is the group that could be rude. The marginalized group is the group that could be assholes. The People 34:45 of a higher stature, because I don't have another. Privilege. Privilege. Privilege. Are the niggas, to your point, that have to listen. And you kind 34:53 of got to shut the fuck up. And so when you don't shut the fuck up, you get stamped. So here's the thing, it's directional. So you're correct, it's just 35:01 pointing in the wrong direction. I'm not pointing though. I'm not it is I'm just so here's the thing when I talk about the GOP you can't bring up gender, right? You know why because you are the marginalized 35:09 group when it comes to the GOP and the white mainstream You're not the marginalized group when it comes to women The thing that I'm hearing from a lot of women is The thing that I'm hearing from a lot of women is, the thing that I'm hearing from a lot of, and I 35:17 want to speak to this intentionally, a lot of women have come to me and said, black men are being targeted by rich white men and getting mad at black 35:25 women, and we're not the ones who are targeting them. So they're not upset about, and this is something they say all the time, the GOP targeted you. Black women didn't target 35:33 you. I agree with that. But black women are the ones who feel the fallback from it. And this is as old as that interview of James Baldwin. Was it Sonia Sanchez? 35:42 Nikki Giovanni. Nikki Giovanni, right? A lot of times What happens is the system will attack a black man, and the person who gets the frustration is 35:50 not the white man, it's the black woman. And what we're saying is turn your neck to the left, it wasn't us. And so. Because that's the only person he feels like he could beat down on the shawl. 35:58 Exactly. She's like glad to me. But I want to finish the sentiment. The sentiment is, if a black man is being targeted by white men, why does 36:06 it feel like we're the ones that are getting the brunt of it? If you took it and pointed at the person who's doing it, we'd be right next to you, but it's hard to be next to you when you're pointing at 36:15 me. And so my critique of that is, if black men said, we are being attacked by the GOP and we need our sisters to help us 36:23 against the GOP, that's a very fucking different conversation then. They are attacking us, we're marginalized while we're talking to the 1 group that's behind you. Listen to this. 36:31 Do you acknowledge that? Yes. Yes, but that's not what typically happens. What typically happens is I come home and tell you, yo, I'm being targeted over here. You 36:39 know what the response is? You're not being targeted more than me. You're not. But that negates. No, it doesn't negate 36:48 because privilege is conditional about who's in the room. When a black, I'm gonna do the hierarchy real quick. We're gonna have a quick teachable moment. We're gonna do this like Sesame Street. This is the 36:56 hierarchy that I did not create. We still need your Michael Little quote. I'm sorry, this is not, because my titties were in the, you know, This is the hierarchy that I did not create, but I had to study, unfortunately, right? 37:04 The hierarchy is, if you are basing it on white supremacy, white supremacy is based on masculinity and whiteness, right, 2 things. I talked about this ad nauseum, so if you 37:12 follow my page, you've heard it, right? So whiteness and malehood together is the ultimate cheat code. White men. White men. Right? Anytime you see we the people, it means white men. 37:20 It means white men. And here's the thing, all of us agree that it means white men. Yeah, absolutely. So here's where shit gets tricky. Privilege can be conditional. Second 37:29 place is where the issue is. When we are doing it based on gender, suddenly, black men are not at the bottom 37:38 of the food chain anymore. They're actually behind the white men because they have balls, they're men. They're just not white. And white women 37:46 suddenly are slumming it with the black and Latinos and the Asians, right? When you do it based on race, the white women go 37:54 back up to the top. So white women and black men tap in and out of second place all the time. We never get to be second 38:02 place. We're gonna always be in the trenches regardless, right? And what happens is, we love it when y'all are next to us when it comes to race. When it comes to race, black women are the first people marching, we're 38:10 the first people on the front lines, because you're next to us. The minute it becomes about gender, you leave us in the dust. And the issue is, 38:19 we'll be talking about something where you're in second place and you pretend you're still next to us. And the disparity of where you think you are and where you actually are is 38:27 where the issues happen. Acknowledge your privilege. Say, you know what? These white men are after me. I'm still a man though, and there's misogyny, and I've 38:35 never had to do with misogyny. On your worst day, none of you, on your worst day, none of you will ever have to deal with the system of oppression and misogyny. 38:43 And women who don't have the language, because I will give Isham credit, There are women who do not have the language to separate misogyny from men. And they take 38:51 out their frustration on misogyny on men. Right? And there are- And they deep, there's a lot of them. They deep. And a lot of them. And I comment out on this, but there 38:59 are also men who take out their frustration on race, on black women. And so it's not that they don't listen to us, it's that we're all, 39:08 not just ish, all of us, pointing in the wrong fucking direction. Cool, but I heard everything you said. I am absolutely listening. Thank you for acknowledging that's really important for psychological safety. 39:16 His, hypothetical that he brought up. I'm serious. No, I'm serious. Where he said, yo, I'll go to my black woman and say, hey, 39:24 we're being targeted by them. And the response is, yeah, but not more than us. That's what makes it not like, it's like 39:33 he wasn't heard. Like that wasn't the conversation. It wasn't a comparison. It's not, hey, I'm this, but are you, I'm this more than you. It's literally just, hey, 39:41 this is something going on. And in that moment, he just wanted to be heard. And understood, not immediately it becomes a competition or a battle, especially 39:49 in your home. That was my other issue with some of the stuff you were saying on this topic, because it's like, you said 39:59 everything these guys have to say is in Meg's direction and I'm watching and I'm listening like well 40:08 Clay never gave nobody nothing like he never said nothing he never did any information that we get is coming from Meg so we only Why would the attention 40:16 not be toward Meg? Because if the premise is, if I come to you and say that someone caused me harm, the premise 40:24 is that I was harmed, and the glossing over that is something that... We were just talking about this off-camera with Mark. I was saying, sometimes when a woman comes 40:32 to a man, she's coming to him for him to hold space with her, not for him to jump to fix it. And the thing that I had to teach him, and the thing that's 40:40 really tricky, because you know I work with a lot of couples, by the way, I want to talk about this real quick before any of your fans say this, Blue, if you're single, how are you working with married couples I have an answer to that proactively because 40:49 this is really important when it comes to emotional intelligence come in the emotional intelligence coach it's not something that can be licensed before anybody else who's been 40:57 on the show you can't like this okay does not exist 41:05 okay I didn't get it because it doesn't exist. But as an emotional intelligence coach who's been doing this on the record since 2003, right? 41:13 My first job was at the Harvard School of Public Health. Didn't go there, I worked there. When it comes to emotional intelligence, the best case scenario for all relationships is 2 healthy people being together. 41:21 Best case scenario. You healthy, I'm healthy, we did the work and we found each other, baby I love you. Ooh, everybody kith. Second best scenario is being healthy on your own. 41:30 I can't help that I haven't found my person yet, but I'm good. Third best scenario is being unhealthy by yourself. Because I'm a fucking mess, 41:38 but at least I've made it nobody else's problem. The worst case scenario of emotional intelligence is 2 messed up motherfuckers 41:47 doing a Bobby and Whitney rendition every fucking day on social media That's fourth place. Guess what? I'm in second place So the math says somebody 41:55 in second place is completely equipped to coach to talk to you. Yeah That's why so many of people are the couples, because I'm healthy on my own. 42:03 Both of y'all are the mess. Of course it makes sense that you're coming to me. So when they say, how are you single and still doing couples therapy, it's because the only people who can tell me shit 42:12 is happily married couples, and I listen to them. When I'm around a happily married couple, I listen to them. When I'm around a messed up couple, because I understand math, I help them. 42:20 And what happens is, when I'm working with these men, I had this guy that I was working with, his name was Courtney, shout out to him. He said to me, Blue, everything you taught me in this class, because I teach a class, 42:28 right, it's 8 weeks. He's like, Everything you've said to me technically is things that my wife has been saying to me for 25 years. 25 years. Why is it suddenly I can 42:36 hear you now? I said, Courtney, it's because you feel safe. And I looked at his wife and I said, you've now seen how he reacts to women who makes him feel safe. You 42:44 no longer have an excuse. Because she's thinking we're coming here to fix him not realizing that the ecosystem that she was creating was counterintuitive 42:53 for what she was asking of him and so what I'm saying is it's gender neutral men need to feel safe but so 43:01 I receive everything you just said yeah I understand And I agree for the most part. So we're triggered because 43:09 you reminded us of all the niggas who didn't make us feel safe when you glossed over the pain. But you started with what the acceptable premise 43:18 is. Yeah. So if a woman is coming to you saying, hey, I've been hurt, then everything you say after that, I'm all the way with you. We get back to what some people think 43:26 of Meg and what some people don't think of Meg. I, again, in my speech said, personally, I don't believe 1 word 43:34 that this woman says. So when she comes and says, I've been hurt, he's been cheating, he's been doing this, I'm waiting for more information. I've established 43:42 I can't take your word for how things look and how things are going. Me. So I didn't take it like, I 43:50 didn't receive it like, hey this is a black woman, she's been hurt, he's cheated, she's going through all this, let's be there for her. I didn't take it like that at all. But 43:58 your audience, that's the thing that's so tricky when you work in the industry. We all know, and we all have experience with this, there'll be times you'll see Twitter arguing about something and they're caving for 44:06 someone, and you know they're a shitty person in real life. And they're like, oh, this poor thing, and you're like, I know she's a shitty person. I'm making a point, though, to think about the audience's perspective 44:15 and not just my own. If the audience is working from the premise that this is a woman who's been caused harm, I have to speak to their perspective, not my insider knowledge that 44:23 I'm not gonna share with them. Because you're having 2 conversations simultaneously. I don't see, I never do that. And that's where shit gets a little bit dangerous because If I know someone is 44:31 full of shit, but we're working off the premise that the audience knows that they've been hurt and harmed, and I'm pretending to play along with them, then 44:39 I have to play along with them. Let me pause, let me pause. Unless you're willing to call out, I've done this before, hey y'all, I know some shit about this 44:47 bitch. She goes to women in power break brunches, but she hates all you bitches. Then I say what I want, right? You making a blind item. Suddenly it's like, okay, well, I'm saying a little bit 44:55 that there's some, or I'll even say, hey, I know things that make this make sense to me. Just know that the reason why I'm coming down is I've heard things I cannot share that make me feel like 45:03 I cannot trust her. So we're not working off the premise of a woman who was cheated on. We're working on the premise of a woman who lied. Even that makes it a little bit softer. What 45:11 they're hearing though is Meg is crying about the fact that she's been cheating on. Joe Budden podcast is coming on a woman who's devastated and too sick to go to work. And a bunch of men 45:20 who agree with that, even though you wouldn't agree with it, are backing you up not knowing that you're on 2 different sides. You guys have a nuance as industry insiders that 45:28 your audience doesn't. And when you don't bridge the gap, It unintentionally makes you harbingers of chaos. Same thing with Dave Chappelle. Dave Chappelle said, I didn't expect that what I 45:36 said was gonna be used in this way. Where is the media literacy of understanding your audience is not as bright or as tapped in as you are sometimes? 45:44 Okay, let me just real quick. My question to you is, and then I'll talk to you about it too. Do you think that the person who is not an industry insider hasn't 45:53 seen enough from Meg to come to the same conclusion? You basically said what I was about to ask. I think that, and that's actually a really great question, I think that I have seen 46:01 a lot of men who have come forward I haven't posted a video of a couple of them because I like to show men speaking to men as a woman I don't want to do the thing. I'm constantly talking to men. I like men 46:09 to talk to each other, right? There are a lot of men who have come forward and said I don't like Meg and I still think that she might not be telling the truth, but if she is telling 46:17 the truth, you niggas are wrong for this. I've seen men do that. I posted those videos. Again, you took the foreplay step. We're going to always get back to foreplay. If 46:26 you are talking to an audience, you have to make sure that the people that you are not in agreement with understand I'm not speaking to you niggas because y'all on some really fucked up shit that I don't 46:34 agree with did you guys call my last question did you guys call out that meme in the in the pod what the train 1 that you spoke of yeah when 46:42 you called it out what did you guys say about that I remember I I said that I was sort of talking about, my point was regardless 46:51 of what we think about, because we were on different sides of this make thing in different ways, different times. I think we all agreed that making memes about the dude she fucked, having 46:59 a lot of dudes fucked, All that stuff we all said was like, that's out of bounds. I think everybody agreed to that. And here's the thing, how'd you denounce it? It's corny sucker niggas shit. And we 47:08 denounce a ton of man shit up here. That's the fact. It's the when. That stuff gets ignored. Like yo, We called niggas goofy. We diss 47:17 niggas when niggas is doing goofy shit. We diss the niggas Yeah, like that's exposing women Most of the people with who would 47:25 gather and opinions about a lot of this stuff. There aren't viewers. That's 1 They're watching the clips. They're seeing things that roll down the tape in different ways, 47:33 so they're basing their opinion off of that. If you get a full view of everything, then you might have a different perception. But we can't expect that to always happen. I talked to 1 of your viewers, and he and I got into 47:41 a shouting match. I let you know how that went talking to a JVP like day 1, right? And by the end, he said, I love you. Okay, bye-bye. Like, 47:49 he walked it back because he realized, why are you arguing with me, I love you. And by the way, that's how I, I have that thing I tell women all the time, talk to men from a spirit of wetness. Talk to men 47:57 as if you're- From a spirit of? Wetness. Oh, okay, I thought I heard you wrong. Like Vaginal Wetness, yeah. The way a woman talks to you when she's wet is like. Throw them off for a minute. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the Spirit 48:06 of Wetness, I'm working on the book. Like, the Spirit of Wetness is about if you care about a man, talk to him as if you care about him. The way that you talk to him when you are wet. 48:14 Like, baby, don't do that. You know I love you, don't do that, right? There's a certain, you take the teeth out of it, right? And so- What should I say? You ain't know what's up. That's what I 48:22 always say, just take it. You know what? And if you're talking from the spirit of wetness, anything I say should be right. No, no, because I can 48:30 correct you. Like, ooh, a little bit softer, please. And then, and he's like, okay, baby. Like, there has to be a certain level of softness that happens when you're talking to a man So I'm talking to my 48:38 from the JB who watches the JBP. He calls my phone blue I'm fucked up about this Meg thing the group chat doesn't agree with you X Y & Z and I said what's wrong 48:46 friend? He said well, you know, I don't fuck with her, first thing he said. Then he said, well, you know, these women, they be lying all the time, and like, my boy, you know, his wife 48:54 took him to court. I said, pause for a second. Are we talking about Meg, or are we talking about the woman? Yeah, what that got to do with this? But This is what your audience does, because I've talked to them, right? 49:02 Are we talking about men, or are we talking about the women who lied to your homeboy in court during the child support thing? He said, we're talking about men. I said, but do you see how Meg 49:11 instantly, subconsciously became a symbol for every horrible woman who's ever hurt somebody? Yeah, it doesn't correlate. It's not the same. Yeah, 1 don't have the real double. Yeah, a 49:19 lot, the triggering is happening both ways. Women were triggered thinking that men weren't holding space. Men were triggered thinking about the lying ass bitch in my real life. 49:27 If everybody's triggered, as the person with the mic, I kind of choose for myself to be the 1 who's like, hey, I understand why you're all 49:35 upset. That's not an excuse to be misogynistic. That's not an excuse to be racist. And I start with that. I understand for your audience, it might be a little bit trickier, but you also have to be redundant. 1 of 49:43 the things that Ish said is that he doesn't believe that people are gonna believe all the kumbaya shit we're doing right now, be redundant. James Baldwin, who is my North 49:52 Star, was redundant, redundant, redundant. He was a lone voice. Everybody told him, you are wasting your time, my nigga. His best friend was Malcolm X, 50:00 MLK, and Medgar. Ever said I think it was? Those were his 3 besties, right? They had different ways of doing things. Malcolm wanted to burn it all down. Martin wanted to 50:08 link arms. Medgar got unalived unfortunately, and he said by the time they died, Martin and Malcolm slowly found their way to the middle. And guess who was consistent, 50:16 even when they said he was wasting his time? Baldwin. I choose the Baldwin approach of, I'm gonna do this shit right, because in 60 years when we're all dead and they're 50:25 playing back these clips, I want my kids to be proud that I still sit 10 toes down. So being defeatist, that it's not gonna work right now, Doesn't mean it's not gonna eventually work because the gag 50:33 is 60 years later, now suddenly everybody's listening to James Baldwin. They're like, how is this nigga saying this in 1964? I wanna be on the right side of history so 50:41 I can't be defeatist-ish. I'm gonna keep saying the right thing. Why you directing inside me? Because you're feeling like there's no point. I'm telling you, that is the point, The long game. This wasn't even 50:49 my question. Joe had a second. I know, but I care about you. I ain't got nothing to do with that. I'm cool. I want to toss 1 of my... You still 50:57 answer his question though. What did I answer? His question was, do you not understand how, based on her track record, there are a ton of men 51:05 saying that yo I don't believe anything that she is saying yes, I Understand and I actually don't disagree with it again You 51:13 can have a great point the minute it veers into a system of oppression and out of personal grievance with 1 person, you're going to always lose the women. What's the track record? That's 51:21 how I was about to ask. So I want to, I want to, because I'm going to just give some nuance. Oh, we're not going to read through it. And by the way, it's not, it's not track record, it's a belief. The belief 51:29 is that she's a good liar. Hold on, hold on. I think that's more important. It's more than that. It's more than that. It's more than that. It's more than that, though. And that's actually where I was about to go, but I'll let you go first. I want to hear this. I'll let 51:37 him go first. Because like I said, when you put certain people in a room, you have different conversations. So what we see as a track record, some people can see just as her living 51:45 life and going through the motions and shit, right? Not so much of a track record, it's just a woman being a woman, right? A young girl fucking up and learning. I think that's 1, yeah. Cool, that's 1, right? 51:54 No, no. How you telling me no from what other people can see? Oh, don't you ask me. No, I'm not talking for y'all. I'm saying from how other people see it. Yeah. Got it, got it, got it. 52:02 OK. So depending on who you talk to, it's not a track record. It's just a woman being a woman. And there's no dishonesty in it. It's just her being a woman going through the motions. I'm 52:11 on it. Let me say what I'm saying. I'm trying to get a room full of nays. Like, we don't have to go through them. Let him win. Let him win. Let him win. Like, he know what time it is. No, I 52:19 don't know what time it is. You know what time it is. I don't know what time it is because I don't know the person and know what time it is. I can go face-off and work. All right, so my question, since you don't know, 52:27 then you meet up, my question is maybe getting in. You told me to meet up both for my question. All right, go ahead. All right, go ahead. Well, because you said you don't know. 52:36 And I guess the question I'm about to present opens the floor for us to have the discussion. I had a question posed before that, but you got it. My toxic thought to 52:44 you. Ooh, okay. Don't judge me. I'm not. Do you think that women and hoes just get to go by the same 52:52 rules? Women and hoes, what is the distinction for you? What 53:01 is the distinction between women and hoes? I believe that hoes are women but not women are hoes. How you carry yourself? Okay. How 53:10 you carry yourself? Right? On the guy side, I take it to... Let her define what her definition of women 53:18 versus hoes is, and then you could carry on. Yeah, I wouldn't let you understand. Let her define it, and then you could carry on. What 53:26 was a ho? Based on what her definition of, because she said I believe that all hoes are women, but not all women are hoes. That's what she said. So her definition, 53:34 I agree too. But so now that we can move the conversation further, you tell us what your definition of a hoe is, and then you could pick up 53:42 off of that. Okay. I, for me, hoeing, there's, hoeing is a lifestyle, and there's hoeing as an identity. Right, 53:51 there are some people who... You begin, you keep a trick. I'm saying, there are some women who can have ho phases and be ethical 53:59 sluts. There's a whole book called the ethical slut. Great book. It is. Everybody knows what's up. I'm doing a whole shit, but I'm doing it above the board. There's nobody being tricked. 54:07 There's full consent. And then you can have hoeing as a lifestyle where the tricking is the thing. And 54:16 integrity be damned, right? I understand. So you can ho with integrity and without it. Anything with integrity, I don't have a problem with. 54:24 Anything without integrity, fuck hoeing, you could be in the church and I have a problem with you if you have no integrity. It's an integrity issue, not the actions. That's where the 54:32 line gets blurred. Also, when I look at this whole hoes, women thing that I'm about to say, for me, it's akin 54:40 to street niggas and civilians, right? Street niggas, you're living a lifestyle. And whether it's by lifestyle or the other shit 54:49 you try to remember right now, in either 1 of them. Some of the shit that happens in a street nigga's life, the 54:57 game is the game. Come with it, you playing that game, you're subject to that, and you cannot cry wolf or fowl when they don't, Yes. We 55:06 know what's right and wrong here. This is what you chose. So the decisions you make, this is what comes to it. The street nigger rules 55:14 and civilian, male civilian rules are not the same at all. Do you know civilians who think they're street niggas and have to find out the hard way that they're not? I'm 55:23 sure that happens. Yeah, I think there's holes. There are women who think that they're about that whole life and shit gets really like, ooh, I'm not 55:31 built for this. Well, What happens to the woman who goes through whatever little phase you're talking about, acknowledges that they went through that phase, now 55:39 takes on a partner, comes out of it, and then mistreat it? We can't acknowledge that they've been mistreated? Thank you for that, because I used to be on some ho shit, and now look at me, 55:47 all saved, looking like a damsel. Right, like you. What I'm gonna say. You'll be right up to the end. Right, no, no, but let me explain to you, like here's the thing, if I meet a street, 55:55 because I used to work with, my very first job was working with former gang members who had reformed their lives, they came out of jail and wanted to live 56:03 better and they were working at a non-profit. So I was literally working with street niggas who were trying to redirect their lives. I never once 56:11 threw their past in their face because I was looking at where they were going now, where they've been. A lot of times when y'all see a hoe who's trying to do some other shit You make her 56:19 beholden to her past in a way that I wouldn't do it to a street nigga. No, no, okay But wait, I wonder that's still doing shit though. 56:27 But wait, that's on you We're grassy. No, we see any no, here's the thing though If we if we say wait wait, but don't that effort though because regressing is different than still being a 56:36 street nigga though. You can regress and still be attempting. Anybody who's ever been on a diet knows that you might go in the fridge and eat a pizza. Don't mean you're not still on a diet and you just gonna do better tomorrow, right? 56:44 Nobody's perfect. Growth is not linear. What hurts my heart is, I hate when a black woman sees a black man trying to do 56:52 better, and the minute he fumbles, even though fumbling is part of growth and literally baked into the process, she immediately throws his past in his face. Conversely, 57:01 I hate when a hoe is trying to do right and regresses and now you ain't never gonna be nothing but a hoe. Both of them suck to me. Fucking up doesn't 57:09 mean you're not still trying to get out of it. And my thing is we don't show grace on either end for people who regress while still trying to get out of it. How do we know the hoe is trying to get out of 57:17 it? That's my question. You have to get the time. We just going off what we see. That's where I push back on you. Hey, the hoe changed her life. She 57:25 got 20 years of hoeing. She changed her life today. But this hoe's like only 25, so I'm not... We're just talking about the ho. I'm 57:35 not calling Meg a ho. I'm not calling Meg a ho. I was going to say, she's a little too young for that. Yeah, I'm not really going there with it. But if you were hoing for 57:43 many years and now you change your life around, it's not nobody else's fault that they still see you like a hoe like they tell they tell recovering addicts that all the time All right, 57:51 you stop getting high. It's gonna take the people in your life Years, you gotta accept that criticism. Yeah, so so let me ask you Do you know wrong? 57:59 You know, I'm gonna be skeptical but she but they're not out wrong to keep trying if if someone walks it let's Not be a funny why I'm beautiful. 58:07 Oh Be funny hat We've had a passive history of moving around, all of us. Passive history of moving around. Some of us in here have really locked 58:15 in with quality women. Hey, baby. We've done that for less time than we've done the hoin'. So if a person wanted to go in 58:23 and forget parts, anybody else, whatever, you was on bullshit. Academic holds me to work sometimes. Exactly, exactly. I've been trying to pull them to the clueless tackle. 58:32 I've been working with them, man, trying to get me world. Oh, OK. Pronouns matter. Really intimately. Really intimately. You've been working with them, bro. You hear them now. They know. 58:40 So in that example. That male would be a bitch. In that example, it's fine. Everybody can have their opinion. That don't mean I have to accept it because today I'm not living that way I'm not moving 58:49 in that way and I've shown through example currently the woman that I'm faithful to They don't have to go ahead and let that be the representation And then I'm gonna call 58:57 it naive of that person to be oblivious as to why the world still looks at them a certain way. No, I'm not 59:05 disagreeing with both points. My thing is, if your new girl has never experienced any of those things with you, right, she 59:13 cannot now, but if I'm telling you, baby, I'm done with that life. I got caught cheating by my girl 77 times, and I'm telling you, I'm done with that life. 59:21 And I'm changing. And for 6 months, I was on the straight and narrow. And the seventh month, I got caught cheating. I can't now go tell my girl, yo, well, I'm 59:29 growing. I was working on it. And this is a part of regression, it's a part of my changing and my growth. My girls don't want to hear that shit. The initial example for 59:38 all this was the Meg and Clay shit, right? Yeah. Cool. Let's just say there was a pattern, let's just say there was whatever, cool. At some point, the pattern became, 59:46 for a very short period of time she was with someone and she was locked in in a way that maybe we didn't see locked in before doing whatever on the boat cooking for 59:54 the cool right that was her trying to go ahead and show growth or trying to move in a different direction she now does that and she's cheated on Why 1:00:03 are we bringing up her past? Just hear me out, hear me out. Why are we bringing up any of that? And does it mean just because you've had that past, you 1:00:11 still can't be wronged? Yeah, somebody passed to tell you the future. Yeah, so I'm not just that. What? Somebody passed to tell you the future. Let me answer you. I 1:00:19 don't agree with you. And there's a few things about the climate. Somebody's past can tell you your future. Do you know what most of our futures would look like if we talk about our past? But wait, you can't create new patterns because everybody in 1:00:27 this room is a reform something. Exactly. We all disprove that. Everybody in this room is something now that they never were before. Absolutely. 1:00:36 And so my thing is, if we had the, somebody had to show me grace to be what I am now. Somebody definitely had to show you grace to be respectful to me. To be what you are. 1:00:44 You both are true. Somebody showed us all grace. My thing is, there are people in this world who are going to say, I have become something new, so I'm going to try to 1:00:52 hold space for you to become something new, because I know what it's like to struggle for that. 1000%. And there are people who are stuck, who are going to try to get you stuck too by judging you. My thing is, I'm 1:01:00 choosing to be the person who takes the risk because I was the risk at 1 point, and now I'm a good bet. None of us in this room without, 1:01:08 and I will say this to you, I don't want us to be hypocritical. I've been wanting to say this to you for a couple of years specifically. Me? Yes. Okay. You always, because language matters, right? 1:01:16 You always say that we're all hypocrites. I disagree with that adamantly for 1 small reason, because words mean things. We can all be angry, but we're not all angry people, right? 1:01:25 Anger is a blank, is an emotion that can come fleetingly. To be an angry person as a defining character trait has to be something that you do all the time. I can have a hypocritical 1:01:33 moment, but as a character, I'm not a hypocrite. We're not all hypocrites. We can all be hypocritical, right? And when you think about that, how- I'm saying, I 1:01:41 get it. But you know what I'm saying? No, it's a moment, because we all have access to all human emotions, versus a character trait. That was my point. Hypocrite is a character trait. You can throw a sometimes at the 1:01:49 end of the phrase. Yes, we can all be hypocrites sometimes, or we can all be hypocritical. The A-L just makes it break, right? So I'm not a hypocrite actually, which 1:01:57 means if I have a hypocritical moment, Joe's going to show me grace, and he's like, Blue usually is on the up and up, she's just having a bad day. Right. That grace is something I had to slowly 1:02:05 earn, right? He had to watch my videos and realize, she gets it right more than she gets it wrong. But that's a grace he had to show, but guess what? I was going to keep on doing it, regardless 1:02:14 of if he gave me the grace or not. And so what I'm saying is, keep on showing up, even when you fuck up, get back up, right? But there's going to be folks who the minute you 1:02:22 fall, are going to be like, ha ha, I told you you weren't shit. And who do you want to be in the room? Who do y'all want to be in that room? The person who's pointing or the nigga who's giving grace? Not just that, 1:02:30 There's people that you don't have to fall. They just, like, go back to this example we used, the liar, I want to bring the liar up. If 1:02:38 I am a liar, and y'all don't believe, y'all know, you can't believe this nigga, this nigga be lying. You're right. 1:02:47 It's now naive of me, even if I start telling the truth, to think that everybody's just gonna all of a sudden believe that yo, this nigga don't be lying. Unless you were telling 1:02:55 the truth for 6 months. Yeah, he been done, yeah. No. And then you're preaching your lie, you're like oh, he's regressing. No, that's 1:03:03 him. He's a liar and we knew it. He was going to lie. So what happened to those 6 months? What was he in those 6 months? He was trying to do something different. He might have put an effort 1:03:11 to it, but you are who you are. Or that. You are who you are. You could try to dress it up and be something different for 6 months. So if 1:03:19 you caught me, so if you caught me. But that's where, I'm sorry, E, fucking, but that's where whether people believe that you've tried 1:03:27 to change, that you've changed your life and whether people don't believe it. That shouldn't happen. Where is it hurtful for somebody to say, hey, 1:03:36 maybe we shouldn't go public anytime soon with these relationships. Immaturity. Maybe you should just take your time, vet these people, find out whatever 1:03:44 info you need. Like, how is that in, how's that? Well, take the time for yourself. Some of the things- take the time for yourself after you've been through so many 1:03:52 public situations. And I get your earlier point about how you say things in the foreplay and so I got that part. And maybe that's the answer to it. I think 1:04:01 that actually is the answer. You can be polite in truth. People will be like, yo, I'm just telling the truth. A lot of people that are mean be like, yo, they stand on this pillar 1:04:10 of truth. No, I could, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if Parks breath stink 1 day. Oh, 1:04:18 you smelled nice when I hugged you. I could say, yo, my nigga, man, there's some gum. It's approach, it's approach and it's how you say it. You my man, you deliver some gum. Or I could be like, 1:04:26 damn nigga, your breath stink. Both of them can be true. 1 was hurtful and 1 was hurtful. So a lot of times we under this guise of I'm telling 1:04:34 the truth are mean. Right? Cool. In the situation where we were talking about the clay shit, we were all 1:04:42 saying we niggas, and we all have had a plethora of women. We've all been in serious relationships. There is a 1:04:50 grace period between meeting somebody and them being your boyfriend, and we are totally 100% monogamous. There's a 1:04:58 period in that, right? And so their relationship from the outside looking in, because none of us have the particulars, they were too 1:05:06 soon for her to be saying, this is my man. Who said? They're moving like lesbians, I agree. Nobody, so listen, so look, in that period, so for him to say, okay, cool, 1:05:14 and This is where I want everybody to be graceful because we all want to be graceful. In that period of 6, 8 months, wherever they were dating, yo, he now comes 1:05:23 to her and says, you know what, I can't do this because this is what she said he said. Yo, monogamy may not be for me. And she 1:05:31 took it like, yo, nigga, you had me around your family, you had me cooking this, you had me on a boat. Now You gonna come tell me monogamy is not for you you 1:05:39 piece of shit That's the cheating part though if we're going on her premise. We don't know Okay, 1:05:49 cool. So he gets caught cheating. Yeah. And he says, you know what? I thought I could do this. I can't. It's still pretty nice. Monogamy is not for me. Now we demonize 1:05:58 this nigga. You should've said that before the cheating though. No, I tried. So to your point about grace... There's no try. How do you... Imani, you just sat here. Imani, you just sat here. 1:06:06 I might not have known him before this shit. No, no, no. Stop, Joe. Imani just sat here and said, yo, I had a period of doing X and I tried 1:06:14 for 6 months to do why don't say the tribe We say when you verbalize it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm saying I'm not I was a speech that I'm saying you said he tried to say 1:06:22 that. No, he's trying to be in a relationship. I'm trying to be something I'm not. I'm trying to be in a relationship. Oh, I got you. And now I get caught, and I know that maybe I can't do 1:06:30 this. This is not good. No, no, you don't be in a monogamous relationship and then get caught. You cheated. Yeah, and I've been, wait, 1:06:38 I've been saying. Yo, what? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Mark, you just said, for 6 months, I'm a liar, and I've been a liar for 20 years. And then for 6 1:06:46 months, I told the truth. Yeah. And I was trying to be honest and then on the seventh month I lied. Yes, you can. It's the same thing. Yo, dog, I tried something new in this particular 1:06:55 relationship that I thought I could do and I can't. So he has to be held accountable for breaking that. Not her. Yeah, yeah. I said I'm not this open with that. 1:07:03 But there's a breaking of a covenant that's being downplayed though. We're talking about the grace for the person that committed the sin. OK, so if we're going 1:07:11 to focus on the person who committed the sin, then why has our whole conversation been based around the person that got cheated on. No, that's exactly what the women are 1:07:19 saying though. No, I'm agreeing with him. I'm talking about this as a separate issue. We're talking about the shit when Joe said, yo dog, if you have a pattern of this, why can 1:07:27 I still hold to that? It's 2 separate conversations. You know what I think it has to really go down to, and we have to be honest about, when you start 1:07:35 with, I just don't like the girl, period, or I don't believe her, I think she's a liar, some of our thoughts, it starts with bias. And for sure. And I don't have that. We 1:07:43 have to be honest with that. Yeah, I don't have that. That's just what it is. And we tend to read them generously. And it goes back to my conversation or my point from the jump of all of this. Sometimes the approach 1:07:52 of how you say things can make it seem like you're actually giving truth instead of giving anger. So a lot of times- Or frustration. Or 1:08:00 frustration. I think it's just not angry. I think he's frustrated. No, I'm sitting here listening to people be biased, contingent upon who the 1:08:08 person is. Yo, my nigga, if the rabbit is guilty and the fox is guilty, my nigga, they both can be interchangeably guilty. So if that's the case, then 1:08:16 we have this conversation about Megan Clay and the conversation is about him cheating Why do we ever mention anything about her past 1:08:24 or any of that if we're not gonna let me finish? Let me if we're leaning into that and that's what the conversation is about the person who's wrong the person 1:08:32 who did that person wrong. Just because you were a cheater then does not mean you can't be wronged in the future. So in this moment, she was wrong. Why did we have a whole circle 1:08:40 of conversations about her being a liar? She wasn't wrong, he was wrong. That matters. Her being a liar. Oh, you said wrong. Listen, listen, listen, let me answer your question. That matters 1:08:49 because A, if I don't believe nothing this girl says, then I don't believe that post. I think that post could be weaponization. But then you can't. If 1:08:57 I don't believe you. Then you can't refer to the post if you don't believe it. So now it goes back to, Hold on. You can't do both. I'm saying it. Are we going to use the post or not? We can't do both. There you go. Listen, I'm 1:09:05 saying if she puts a post up and says, I was cheated on, I'm speaking to that post being used for weaponization. So the truth might not have 1:09:13 to be in that post. But if you're going to use the post, You're either using the post and referring to it, or you're completely disregarding it. That's not true. I'm not sure that's true. That's not true. 1:09:21 When you and a nigga get caught lying on the stand, we don't say, yo, he lied on the stand. We're gonna retract the whole thing. It's a good example. No! You guys didn't know about who she slept 1:09:29 with. Perfect example, sexual autonomy, right? If you ask me if I slept with a nigga and I decide to say no, that doesn't mean I'm a liar. That means that 1:09:37 I'm choosing not to share what me and my pussy did. A lot of people, pause, pause. A lot of, let me be honest. I 1:09:46 have, there have been people that I've slept with that I'm not gonna claim. True, you're gonna lie. Samezy, you're gonna lie. Yes, in that moment, 1:09:54 I'm lying on my own puss, right? Correct. But that doesn't make me a liar unilaterally and what happened a lot in the thing was, somebody lying about their own 1:10:02 pussy was used like she's a liar about everything. I'm saying I don't think. That's different though. No, no, no, but father. There was other things that people didn't believe. It wasn't just that line. No, 1:10:10 for y'all, I'm saying that on social media, because I keep on telling y'all, y'all are more nuanced than the audience. On social media, the minute you lie on your puss, you're a 1:10:19 liar forever. I don't agree with that. People lie on their dicks and their pusses all the time because they don't want to share who they're fucking, and they still tell the truth in other places. And so 1:10:27 what I'm saying is, and to your point about the liar, if somebody was a liar for 20 years, They stopped lying for 6 months, right? And then they lie on a month 7 to what Ish 1:10:35 just said. I don't have an issue with someone saying, I don't want to invest further. What I do have an issue with saying, well, this is why your mother's a crackhead and you 1:10:43 ain't never been shit. Oh no. I don't know. That's where people lose it. We don't roll with that. Exactly. We don't. I can't speak for what they do. But the audience, what they did is, rather than saying you lied 1:10:51 on the seventh month, they attacked somebody's entire past, rather than talking about the mistake that happened in the moment. We don't have to do that. I don't 1:10:59 have to throw in every bad thing you ever did because you stumbled. And that's what happened in this case. This is the internet. This is the internet and this is how 1:11:07 it works. And again, you started this whole entire conversation off with, and I hate that we even talking about this girl, that Megan Thee Stallion is 1:11:15 very, very well. She's an internet symbol And she knows how it works. So when you bought your personal business of somebody wronging you 1:11:23 to the internet, the internet is gonna start interneting. And they're gonna start saying a word you feel fucked up when you got cheated on, but you was cheating on party. 1:11:32 You made that nigga look stupid to the world. So now what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Does that mean that the internet is right to say that? No. And to add on. 1:11:40 But this is the internet. I agree with that. I agree with that. I have no pushback, I agree with that. And to add on to that, right? Let's say, he cheated, everything she said. By 1:11:48 the way, I'm learning from you guys too. I'm not just here to like pontificate on behalf of women I'm actually listening to learn and I want to make sure I call that out because I'm a passionate communicator but 1:11:56 I've learned a lot today too so I appreciate that. Boy I know you be having these niggas Spinning 1:12:11 done fucking That's what 1:12:19 I was saying, Let's say we do believe Meg and we take her at her word. Like when 1:12:28 experienced men, nuanced men, men who are well traveled and have dated well experienced. Yeah And let's say 1:12:36 she's right he cheated he's a piece of shit Another part of what I was saying was hey, you got to recognize the the class of family 1:12:44 that you're dating like Expanding that don't the Thomson's that 1:12:53 is Laker greatness. That is, there's no bad press. That's not to say no bad things have happened, but there's no bad 1:13:02 press. How things are handled, how they present as a family is very clean. It's a tight ship. It's very, yeah, so okay, he 1:13:10 cheated, got it. How you handle that with this family, this step up in tier of 1:13:18 man that you're dating, right? That's like a smoke signal, not only to just men who have watched your panner, 1:13:27 but the men who are also in this different tier that you've now changed and you're trying to change your dating habits and your 1:13:35 dating, it sends the wrong message, period, even if you're right. Even if you're right in what you're saying, how you handle it, 1:13:44 we have to find a different way to do it. And go back to speaking to the maturity though. And that's the maturity. Actually, that was the point that I walked in with. I walked in with an immature woman 1:13:52 is making mistakes in the social zeitgeist and as you'd been using as a symbol or a smoke screen for misogyny, like a Trojan horse for misogyny, when 1:14:00 there's actually a greater, more nuanced, and more humanistic point that could have been made instead. That's exactly the point I walked in with. I agree with that, actually. I completely agree. 1:14:09 Do we give Credence to the point where they said that she was getting drunk publicly, and he was looking up, because they got the shit on tape 1:14:17 when they was at the table, and she was drunk, and she was kind of being loud and a little bit rambunctious. What creatures do you get for that for cheating? And 1:14:25 all that's gossip. It's all gossip. It's all gossip. No, what I'm saying is that's... 100% of it is gossip, because we don't know what factually 1:14:34 But it's different levels of gossip. Some of it is fan gossip. Yeah. What I'm saying is like there's shit that Meg said that then 1:14:42 we can either believe or not believe. True. And Then there's a random fan on the internet who just looks at a clip and decides to narrate it and then create a story. 1:14:50 And that's how I'm saying that's the distinction. I was just going to what Joe's point was. Like, yo, like fam, these people operate like this and you 1:14:58 could have been operating like this and a niggas mother, all of us have moms that have come and said, yo dog, I don't like this girl 1:15:06 for you. She's gonna still be respectful to the girl. She's gonna still be polite to the girl because your mother got some class and some dignity. She not gonna show the girl, get 1:15:14 that hussy out my house, get that flute. We have mothers that do stuff like that and so again based on Y'all now be shady to a bitch, huh? 1:15:22 My mom might be shady to a bitch I mean that you care about her. I've always wanted to ask No What 1:15:31 was the question? Was you bringing a woman around your family? No. It depends on the guy. Not necessarily is the answer. Not necessarily is the answer. For me, it 1:15:39 does, but that's not the deal. I'm thinking we go together. No. For me, and that is a part of the social communication that is lacking. 1:15:48 Where you gotta, and I tell my homegirls this, like yo fam, you need a homeboy. Not a homeboy that's just a cool nigg. You need a homeboy that's 1:15:56 a Joe. That's well traveled, that's been around, seen a lot of shit, that when he sits you down and say, yo, you really want the advice? The homeboy is not 1:16:04 trying to fuck you. Sit right here. Well, the problem is with that particular scenario is that even the homeboy might not know the answer, because his family 1:16:12 norms may be completely different from his family norms. No, the homeboy's been around, and the homeboy might have took mad chicks in front of his mother that didn't mean 1:16:20 around snowballs chance on the hottest day of Haiti of being his girl. But even in this room, there's people up here that said that's a big difference and not. 1:16:29 You would hope that. Cause if I was the homeboy I'd be like, yeah, every woman I brought on my mom. But you know niggas that don't. But I can see how that would be a 1:16:37 big deal for Meg, who doesn't have a family. She's the most famous orphan in America right now, respectfully. And how Clay is someone who his family always liked would take 1:16:45 after grandmas. Women are saying that he weaponized that. I'm talking about weaponizing. Men are saying she weaponized the post women are saying that he already preemptively weaponized his 1:16:53 family They're like when you bring America's most pop most famous orphan into your family on Thanksgiving cooking them turkey and stuff You're making her think that she's delicious meal right play. 1:17:01 Dad didn't like that meal No, but listen That's part of what the fuck we was 1:17:13 They not wrong for every man, but I might not take a girl around his mom or art might- But you wouldn't bring somebody whose 1:17:21 mythos is about her being orphaned. That's not true because you might be looking at it like you're doing her a solid. But that makes him an ancient nigger though. Can we admit that if you- No! He's 1:17:29 doing something good for somebody- He might not be thinking about- I adamantly do. He might not be thinking about none of that. If someone comes from a family that is welcoming 1:17:37 and fun and we have events and shit, I might bring girls around and my family's just, we're having a good time drinking, eating, cooking, barbecue, music playing. All of your 1:17:46 twins came to your house and said, excuse me, sir, can I have a piece of bread? And then they're like, oh, I'm so sad, I don't have a family. Here's the thing, right? Meg's whole thing 1:17:54 is she's drinking, she's sad, she's outside, X, Y, and Z. We do the same thing with her that we do with Kanye. They lost their mother. And so the myth is you lost your mother 1:18:02 and you've been spiraling ever since, right? That is such a huge part of the myth. I find it hard to believe, if I'm gonna believe what Joe just said about how 1:18:10 intentional his family is, that someone who comes from a family that's that intentional, a tight ship, right? That you could become from a tight ship, and you're 1:18:18 dating someone who is the diametrically opposed different reality with no family, and who's flailing for no family, and you're gonna make them your 1:18:26 girl, put money down on a house, bring it to Thanksgiving, and not understand that even if you did it with all your other hoes, with this 1 it's going to hit different. I want 1:18:34 to start by saying that, we don't know no family by the way. She may have aunts and cousins and sisters and shit. It's not the same. I know it isn't, but too. An orphan means you don't have 1:18:42 a mother and a father. I understand that, okay. I understand that, that's true. And so as somebody who's dated orphans, I'm gonna be honest I've dated orphans before I treat them differently. But who have you not dated, girl? Yo, 1:18:51 you have experience in that. Everybody don't know and you're saying that he's gonna know it hits different. He may not know it's 1:18:59 gonna hit different. This is a communication. You can't come into a prestigious family and not know what family means. No, that's not true. That's not true. Because you take it for granted because you come 1:19:07 from a prestigious family. That's true. You don't know the value of it unless you never had it. Can I tell you for a second? I can see. That's a good point. So I think there's a couple. What I'm hearing is, because 1:19:15 I've been listening to all of this, is I think a lot of it comes into how what you bring into the conversation and how generously you choose to read people Because you 1:19:23 could read Clay as he waited 7 months knowing it did all this fucked up shit knowing that he Known 1:19:31 who she was and decided in month 7 that suddenly he was gonna bail. You could read it that he knew the whole time he wasn't 1:19:40 down for a relationship and ignored that and didn't care about her feelings. You could read it as he thought about family and didn't give a fuck. Or you could read it to 1:19:48 your point about privilege. Part of privilege is not knowing things. Privilege, by definition, is the luxury to not know. Right, so he could have, so his privilege could have said, I don't even, 1:19:56 and this isn't defending him. I'm doing that crazy right here. He's not even bothering to Think about what it means. I can concede to that, but they're both cheaters though. It's true, 1:20:04 here's the thing. Here's the thing, they're both cheaters. My thing is, they both walked in with dirty hands, so that's why I don't think he was taking a big risk. Clay had a diary 1:20:12 about cheating. He's known for being a cheater, she's known for being a cheater. It's very Bobby and Whitney, 2 addicts, to outside, decided to try to make 1:20:21 it work together. I can't give grace to 1 that I'm not giving to the other. Even in this conversation, I'm giving grace to Clay, and whenever you guys make a point, I concede, right? 1:20:29 I'm giving them both grace. The social zeitgeist is choosing 1, And that's when she gets funny. They are both known for cheating, guys, respectfully. The thing is, only 1 said something. 1:20:38 That's why it's been that way. Only 1? If you hit me with a car, I have to say ouch. You have no idea who that is? No, but I'm saying only 1 person. But I think what they're saying is we're presuming that 1:20:47 she's the victim. We don't know Clay Stantz. And we are presuming that she's telling the truth. We tend to believe the person who says something first. The person who says ouch, we believe the victim. And some people 1:20:55 rush to get their story out first so that they can appear to be the victim. Well, I've been the victim of that. I can relate to that. You never heard of a story, and I'm sure the men 1:21:03 up here, yo, your man be like, yo, come here, yo, these niggas just jumped me. You get up, you put your shit on, you get, let's go. And when you get 1:21:11 to the site, nigga like, yo, dog, he just beat my little sister up. I shot him a fair 1, that's why his face looked like that. None of these niggas jumped in it after 1:21:20 nigga that Never goes and gets nobody his story is gonna ring true You go around there ready to shoot a motherfucker ready to fight some niggas not knowing 1:21:28 that this motherfucker just lies Yes, just because the nigga face look like that. That don't mean that he got jumped. That nigga got well, his ass 1:21:36 whipped and it was well deserved. We put a hypothetical zone. I'm just giving an example. There's 2 cheaters coming together. Like what I keep hearing is 1:21:44 1 we've never heard a word from. So he's a quieter cheater. Are we gonna clap for that? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. I'm not 1:21:52 clapping for that. That was a real question. That was a real question. No, I'm not gonna clap. What I'm gonna say is this. Yeah, clap is what she said. Yeah, clap is back. Yeah, clap is back. That's like, blue, I'm like. 1:22:01 Why? Blue, let me ask you this, right? Because these people. You like, I'm clapping. You like, yeah, yeah, she got me. I'm clapping, I'm clapping. Hey, how was that? I'm like, look at these 1:22:09 2 seals up. No, I said no, I said not good. Look, Meg is an A-list celebrity. Yeah. Clay is B. They're 1:22:18 both A-list celebrities. They're about the same. I don't think Clay's celebrity is. I don't think they're the same tier, no. Clay's celebrity is not what Meg's celebrity is. She's a higher tier than him. See, he might be a 1:22:26 C-list celebrity. He's an A-list athlete, a C-list celebrity. Cool, right? So, in that, in learning to 1:22:34 navigate, when you play in the game actively, like all of us up here have played the game 1:22:42 actively, right? So when I'm talking to a girl, I can get a resume on most chicks outside if I really 1:22:50 press buttons. I can get the chicks resume. I'm thinking about my resume, damn, that's awkward. Right? So, in that, look, look, look, in that, 1:22:59 and we say, Joe has a saying, and I stole it. He be like, yo, she's a Jersey chaser. Some 1:23:08 niggas be like, yo, she's 1:23:20 a studio rap. We know what that means. Yeah, yeah. That means any rapper nigga, if you had a demo, you could get a demo. Right? Oh. 1:23:28 So niggas that. You a rapper now? OK, I see you. Yo, you stupid. So in that, when you start dating this girl, what women sometimes, 1:23:37 when you fucking with athletes don't know, it's just because this nigga plays for Phoenix and this nigga plays for the Nets, these niggas have known each other since they was 13 1:23:45 on the AAU circuit. Just because this nigga raps and this nigga sings, these niggas know each other. He hoop, he a rapper, they 1:23:53 know each other. And so when you start publicly dating a motherfucker, you know what happens? Their phones start ringing. Yo, my nigga, you really like Shorty? 1:24:02 Yeah, yeah, she cool, she cool. Some information will find its way to you. Look alright cool click. Some dirty macking with a Another nigga start calling. Yo my nigga you really feeling 1:24:10 shorty? Because my man and and you start getting shit and a lot of niggas they internalize that. 1:24:19 And so yo I might have really been feeling you for 4 or 5 months, and now maybe not so much. Again, it sounds like victim blaming, I'm not, I'm just pointing the scenario, that 1:24:27 really happens outside in the world when you dating somebody with that level of prestige and with that resume. It sounds like immaturity again. It sounds like, again, whether it's 2 1:24:35 teenagers or 2 of them, it sounds like everybody was immature. All right, let me just jump in really quickly, because I have to go to my stepson's graduation and have a flight to catch. Yeah, 1:24:44 I'm super sad that I have to leave this. This is amazing. But I do want to say goodbye for continuity purposes. I don't want to just work out. Blue, I absolutely love you. You have to have me back. This is fun. 1:24:52 I love all that you do. Please, you can come back here whenever. I would absolutely love that. And if you need a guy's opinion on Blue Centric, 1:25:00 on your show. I would love that. Can I just point something out? Do you see what happens when everybody's safe and you can have the conversation? Did you feel 1:25:08 safe ish? When 1:25:24 I leave I need y'all to get to that. That's next. You don't need to unpack this shit no more. Let's get to the shit. You 1:25:32 got these niggas in a spin cycle. You got these niggas in a spin cycle. Yeah, I've been engaged twice. I don't want who they show up to the wedding, child. 1:25:40 Oh shit. So, here you want some comedy? So I don't mean to make a hard pivot here, but I got to hear about this phone sex thing. Yeah, 1:25:48 yeah. Let's get back to that, please. So this is awkward. We don't talk about, well, you understand. Academia doesn't pay as much as you think. Mm-mm. You say what? 1:25:56 That's why I'm here. Academia doesn't pay as much as you think. I didn't hear you. Academia. So when you're an academic, it's prestigious, you can be tenured, but the money is trash. 1:26:05 I didn't make, when I say that I started working at the Harvard School of Public Health, I didn't make that much money though, right? So I went from Harvard School of Public Health to the Boston Public School system. Moved 1:26:14 to DC and I'm like, I'm running out of money. Oh yeah, especially down there. And I at the time was dating this girl, because again I'm paying for those who forgot, I was dating this girl 1:26:22 who worked in phone sex, and she said, I think you might have an untapped gift. So I was broke and had just made it. Hold on, hold 1:26:30 on, I'm sorry. Yeah that's your boy, yo. Wait, hey big boy. That's how you starting your shit? That's your phone sex voice? Give me your credit card. Hey, big boy? Yo, what's your phone sex voice? Yo, go ahead, big 1:26:38 dog, get it off. Go ahead, yo. Hey, big boy, that's crazy. Hit number 9 for big boy. That's your phone sex voice? That's your phone sex voice? 1:26:46 Big boy is a joke. That's sick. That's the worst phone sex ever. Holy shit. Holy shit. That is crazy. So how did you break the ass? So no, 1:26:54 how it happened was, and God knew to fuck with me, I'm a very pro-black academic. My very first phone sex client was a racist white man. 1:27:03 Oh shit. And he knew you were black? Because I was in the Ebony Room, okay? They had all the black girls sequestered, so it was the Ebony Room and everybody else. So there's Ebony, there's Teen, there's Teen. He had a 1:27:11 king. Huh? He had a king. He's gonna get his shit off. So it's my first day and He says, you know, your nigger boyfriend is about to get fired, and you have to help him 1:27:19 keep his job. Go. I said, oh my god. Oh. Jesus. Oh, that's fire. What? You 1:27:27 got busy on that 1. Go ahead. Go ahead. I want to add. That's fire. Yo, only you. Only you. Go ahead. Only us. It's 1:27:36 like 30 people in this room. That's fire. Right. So I'm just like, this goes against everything that I know academically. That's funny. 1:27:44 I haven't learned so much about systems of oppression. How long has that nigga stay on the phone? Full hour. But let me explain. There you go. No, I talked to him on the ledge. 1:27:53 I could tell, because here's the thing. A man only asks for something like that when he feels disempowered. You talked to 1 of his kink? Yeah. You talked him out of the racism? Yeah. 1:28:01 Holy shit. I did. Halfway through, he was telling me about his day about what was happening his community apparently some black folks had taken his land It was like a whole 1:28:09 thing. He like like a therapy session Okay Okay, so I said you sound upset 1:28:29 Empowered because whenever white men feel disempowered they have oppression envy. I learned about this in school. So he has oppression envy. That 1:28:37 comes from a place of feeling disempowered. Let's drill it down to this man feels small, and he thinks going into a room with a black woman doing race play 1:28:45 will make him feel big. I can make him feel big in other ways. Exactly, Exactly. So yeah, he gave me a nice tip. The poor whites be the most racist whites in the world. Cause they don't 1:28:54 have nobody else to feel bigger than. Yeah, they can't get their shit off. And also too, whiteness, it's a birthright to be affluent. And so everything was set for 1:29:02 you and you still failed. So subconsciously, it's a natural. They really kicking they self in the ass, yes. So I gotta go beat somebody up. I actually talked to him, I talked to a 1:29:10 black man. I said, in this moment he wants to be a black man, so I'll treat him like 1. And So I asked him about his day, he told me all the things that were bothering him, and about 1:29:18 45 minutes in, he was like, enough, I want to get off, and so I helped him with whatever, right? But by the time that happened, he didn't need me to be the nigger bitch trying to get him off. I was 1:29:26 just a woman on the phone who had been listening to him. And I realized that all that time working in academia made me a good phone sex operator. That's pretty funny. Yeah, right. Them niggas do 1:29:34 not stand a chance. What happened? Academia didn't make you a phone sex operator. I feel bad for them niggas that come across your back. I have integrity though. I don't weaponize it. I have integrity. What? Yeah, 1:29:43 education. I don't weaponize the fact that I can make men feel safe because they actually are safe. It's not a feeling, it's a fact. Indeed. Me 1:29:51 too. How long were you a phone sex operator? About a year and a half until a guy from a fraternity that I will not name, who's as very popular, he works in IT and he threatened to come find me because he had 1:29:59 fallen in love with me. Oh, alpha. What? How did y'all know? Oh my God, how did y'all know? What's that? Alpha shit. How 1:30:07 did you know? Because they're weak-minded, you know what I mean? He was like, no, I'm going to find you. He's my wife. I said, oh no, I can't. And I started having nightmares about him finding me. 1:30:16 So I was like, I Oh And back in 2010 That's why you get me. Oh my god. That's actually crazy that you figured that out. But that's the only reason I stopped. I'm making a lot of money. And back in $2, 1:30:25 510 an hour. It's crazy. In $2, 526 an hour was popping. What you talking about? Make that hair. 1:30:33 I was only working 3 hours a day. Work? That's what you talking about. Come here every day. Oh man. No, it was, the thing that's so funny is, being 1:30:41 an academic and then going into phone sex is actually why there's Nobody that a man will tell the truth to more than his side piece or the woman that he is 1:30:49 using as a trick. So being a sex worker, even though it was remote, gave me a glimpse into masculinity. Education, though, a real look. It actually also helped me 1:30:57 heal my father wounds. Because I've seen my father as the man who failed me, I saw him as the man who failed himself. So it helped me humanize him. So in a weird way, 1:31:05 phone sex was like a healing thing for me because I heard things that men would never tell me anyway. You ever coach him too? Oh, coaching? That shit helps me get my rates 1:31:14 up every year, yeah. No, The side man woman is an education in itself. The stakes 1:31:22 are low enough for the guard to come down. Yes. Yeah. Like, yo, I'm already cheating, I'm already sneaking around, so now I feel 1:31:30 vulnerable enough to tell you more shit. Our relationship is going secret anyway. I feel superior, so I'm not worried about my dignity being hurt. Oh, I don't 1:31:38 even look at it like that. The only thing I learned is if you don't rob a man of his dignity, you can get a lot more out of him. Yeah. You ever get aroused doing it? OK, 1:31:47 I'm going to answer this honestly. There's some sounds that you can't fake. Yo, so you was playing while I was playing? So you was getting busy? I was 1:31:55 method acting. I bet you were. I was method acting. In my mind I was dead Zell Washington 1:32:03 okay And so I was method acting and I was like, I'm doing, here's the problem though. My bedroom, I lived in a duplex in D.C., my bedroom was right below Al's bedroom, the guy 1:32:11 who lived upstairs. Al thought I was actual ho. He thought I was just fucking down there. Oh shit. He didn't know it was acting. So for 7 years, she took my garbage out. That's my nigga 1:32:20 Al from South East. He was using a handbill. I'm like, Al, no, it's foam. I was like, no, it's not real niggas. It's just the foam. Big Sash. Big Sash. Big 1:32:28 Sash. Your skin. I love it. You be having them niggas on the phone. Big size, you be having them niggas on 1:32:36 the phone, painting. Actually, I was going to ask you. They still hiring? They still hiring. I knew it. I'm like, they still hiring? $500 1:32:45 an hour ish. Seriously. Yo, you are a fool. That's good until 2026. That's not the rate, that's the tips. So what you had to learn is they would give you tips. That's even better. 1:32:53 Yeah. Yeah. They want to give you the tip. And I would say this too. What's up with this? That's how they get the money. You want to eat, yo? What just happened? 1:33:02 What just happened? Yo, Ish, who wants to give me the tip? The niggas that's on the phone. Oh, OK, got you. No, no, 1:33:10 because you said they want to give you the tip. She said she was making $500 in tips. And I'm saying it because the niggas wanted to give you the tip. I got you. I also 1:33:18 do think though that men are way more emotional sexually than they realize. Men are way more emotional period across the board. 1:33:26 Take sex out of it. Men are way more emotional period than they want to realize because society's told us for a long time that we can't show 1:33:34 our emotions. Yeah, just walk around with this mask on. Yes. And also, too, I think a lot of times women... Except anger. Oh, yeah. Well, anger is power, and men are told that 1:33:42 masculinity is flat. And the reason why I attack misogyny and not men is because misogyny hurts men, too. It does. Misogyny hurts everybody. 1000 percent. That woman who's 1:33:50 calling her man a bitch for having a bad day, that's misogyny. It's in a woman's body, but it's misogyny, right? So like if I had hypothetically like a co-host and 1:34:00 I called him softy and said he was acting feminine and gentle, would that be? That would be heavily misogynistic and probably why you're 1:34:08 not licensed. Hypothetically. Hypothetically, sure, yeah. Yeah. Yo, I ain't going. I disagree with that. Let me tell you something too, and I will say this a lot of times, I think to a point that was made earlier 1:34:16 about being scared to call women out, I want us to get in the point of men calling each other out and women calling each other out so we can take away the gender wars narrative, 1:34:25 because it's the algorithm trying to make money off of RageBate. And so I constantly try to talk to my sisters in a way that I know men can't? And I 1:34:33 ask men, okay, I know you like what I said, but can you all talk to each other? I'll call my guy friends and like give them notes about what to tell their homeboy. Tell them it's this system and this happening. They won't listen. 1:34:41 Now I will say- Men listen to each other more than they listen to men. No they don't. No. That is a misconception. There are some men. I think it depends. You know what? A lot of men, it's a power thing. 1:34:49 So if you view the man as being more successful than you, more powerful than you, then yeah, you'll take what he has. But if somebody 1:34:58 is less than you, and they can be telling you the same exact shit, you ignore them, like get the fuck out of here. Or even if they're not listening, you just don't view them as. You don't view them as, I mean, 1:35:06 I'm sorry. You don't view them as somebody that you can get info from. It's really your view. Again, we come up here a lot of times, and it's subject matter that gets discussed on this 1:35:14 pod. And somebody could be saying it, and then another person will come on the pod and say the same exact 1:35:22 shit, and the person that came on the pod saying the shit, they like, oh, this motherfucker's. It happens host to host, you don't even gotta be guess. This nigga's amazing. That's true. And you like, yo fam, Niggas been saying that 1:35:30 shit for 3 years and y'all just ignored it like it was some bullshit. It's based on how the people view you if they're willing to receive what you're saying. 1:35:39 That's why when niggas go to therapy, they look at the therapist as this decorated academic and I'm laying on a couch and now I could be vulnerable to them, and they don't, 1:35:47 niggas don't respect, this is another conversation we can have, but niggas don't respect their wives in the same way that they respect the therapist, so you feel like you can't talk 1:35:55 to your wife like you talk to the stranger. And it depends on the therapist too, because 1 of the things that I am passionate about pointing out is the word therapy is neutral. It's not good or bad. It's neutral Therapy 1:36:04 is like it's like boyfriend, right? You can have a good boyfriend or a bad boyfriend You can have a good marriage or a bad marriage, right? So if you tell me you've had therapy I'm curious what kind of therapy 1:36:12 is good therapy or was it bad therapy because there's some again 40% of my clients are therapists They are the hardest group to work with. Really, 1:36:20 why? I can see that. I can see that. Because the hubris of being the savior makes them dehumanize themselves, and they find it hard to just be still and receive. They're 1:36:28 good givers, but they're horrible receivers. I can see that. So when I'm, there's a, I'm not going to say her name obviously, but there's a therapist that I work with. Every time we get on the phone, she sobs for 2 hours. 1:36:37 Oof. Just sobbing. She's pretty caring so much. Because she can't cry nowhere else. Just sobbing. Then she apologizes. Oh, I make a lot of money. Oh, I know. 1:36:45 Yeah, my rates are real. I know. And so, and then, so she's, I sell 3 packs though, for anybody who, we do shout outs for our web page. Please, don't. Bundles of dope. She got bundles, 1:36:53 yeah. I know, I have bundles of sessions, because here's the thing, as an EQ. Oh, I'm... I got the untrained, some hood shit. Your ass got big. Your 1:37:01 ass got big. Your ass got big. She got you. The thing about being a coach is I always tell people that a coach and a therapist 1:37:09 work really well together. Imagine that me and a therapist are back to each other. We're facing different parts of the room. A therapist back is facing the past. Their job is to figure out what 1:37:18 went wrong, who failed you, what modalities do you need, what medication do you need, what diagnosis do you need. They're all in the past. My job is, I'm a strategist facing 1:37:26 the future. I actually don't care what the fuck happened. Where do you want to go? I'm going to help you go where you want to go next. Coaches and therapists are back-to-back. We work well together because now we 1:37:34 can see the entire room. How difficult is it to do good coaching if a person doesn't have a therapist and so they haven't come to terms with their past? Well there was 1:37:42 1 time I had a client who said that she came to me and found out through somehow that her therapist had come to me and they had shorthand to talk to each other and actually made their time together easier. Because 1:37:51 you can be somebody who has the clinical knowledge of a therapist and have horrible emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is the connective tissue that you can't 1:37:59 just learn from the DSM-5, right? Like it's actually about how far you're willing to go with yourself. It's called shadow work, right? And so you have to be careful. If you have a therapist that feels 1:38:07 like they don't fully see you, it's like going on a bad date. He might be a nice man, that's not your man though. She might be a good therapist. I've been through that before. 1:38:15 I've had that. And a lot of times I've had people tell me that a man will find a therapist and be like, I'm okay with a female therapist, and then flirt with her or try to get on her good side 1:38:23 and charm her, so now the therapist has a favorite. If you're in couples therapy and the therapist has a favorite, you need a new therapist. Yeah, and sometimes it's a dude, even if you don't want to charm, 1:38:33 there's a way that you want to impress her. Even if you don't want to charm her, per se, because you're not necessarily trying to get a reaction from her, or see, there's 1:38:41 a thing that you might not share with a woman therapist. Or in conversely, there's shit I wouldn't share with a male therapist, because I'm worried about how they're going to see me. It's teachers' 1:38:49 butt. A lot of men, especially if the therapist is charming or attractive, it's really tricky. I've had clients that they had feelings for me and I was like, no, you're just like, I'll make you feel. 1:38:57 That feeling can exist somewhere else. I'm not the only person who can hold that. And as a coach, it gets tricky, because I have people say, well, you've helped me more than my therapist has. And I always 1:39:05 say, your therapist and I are doing 2 very different things. It's not even fair to compare us. There are things that I can say to you as a coach, that I can't say if I was a therapist. Because you're motivating 1:39:14 them. Not just motivating them, but there's laws. I'm just saying, as a coach, it's literally law. But as a coach, you're trying to get them to a place 1:39:24 of ascension. Your therapist is not necessarily trying to do that, right? I've never been a therapist. A therapist is trying to make you whole. I'm trying to make you lean and make you get 1:39:32 productive. And some people, they downgrade what homeless means. I will say this though, it is tricky when I'm around therapists, because I think a lot of therapists, 1:39:41 when they see me, there's a therapist that's very popular that I've met, and It was almost like she expected me to kiss the ring. Because she thought that she 1:39:49 was superior. Attorneys. Yeah, it gets tricky and I had to tell them, we're different but nobody's better. Attorneys. That's 1:39:57 -> 100:05.800] my experience with attorneys. Oh yeah. Attorneys feel like, it could be like an astrophysicist, a brain surgeon, you know what I mean,